Women WithAI: AI is a Superpower. How Leaders & Women in Tech Can Drive Change with Marcelina Dutkiewicz

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:00:04

I really felt like I had a superpower suddenly because it was so fast that people were a little bit shocked. Like, how are you managing all of this?

Voiceover: 00:00:13

You're listening to WithAI FM.

Joanna Shilton: 00:00:17

Hello and welcome to Women with AI, the podcast dedicated to amplifying the voices and perspectives of women in the field of artificial intelligence.

My guest today is an AI strategist, educator and advisor, startup mentor and keynote public speaker based in Denma, Mark. But before we jump into the podcast, let me tell you a little bit about her.

Marcelina Dutkovich is a director of AI and digital R and D strategic initiatives at an oncology biotech company, a founder of Efficiency Tactics, a company that supports leaders and teams in the pharma and biotech sector in AI adoption strategy. And she provides targeted AI trainings and inspirational AI and future of work keynotes.

She holds a Master's degree in Mathematical Modeling and Computation from the Danish Technical University and has over a decade of experience from R D and commercial roles across the pharma and biotech sector. Marcelina is also the AI and Digital Transformation group leader for Women in Life Science, Denmark.

She mentors startups, is the mother of two girls and an avid runner. Marcelina Dutkovic, welcome to Women with AI.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:01:20

Hi. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.

Joanna Shilton: 00:01:23

Great to have you here. Well, let's start with your journey. How did you get into AI? And how has your 10 years in R and D shaped your understanding of the space?

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:01:33

And I love the question. I think it is really a journey. So I will take you maybe through what my career has been.

Like you said, I have a master's in mathematical modeling and computation and I think this was my very first kind of step over the AI line or at least it helps me understand a lot of what is going on right now in the world in terms of the AI transformation, how these models works, etc, And I think that that that built a nice basis. But what really helped later was some of the first steps in my career. I joined Novo Nordis graduate program. I was picked for this program.

It's a rotational two years where there's a lot of candidates applying, I think 10,000 every year. And then they were picking 50 of us into this pretty ambitious two years of rotating.

And the idea was that can they build future leaders that will have a very cross functional understanding of what we doing in pharma? So I started as a statistician working on clinical trials here in Copenhagen. Then I worked on semaglutide.

So the, the, the, that was the Diabetes trials, but the mother basically of their obesity treatment. This is when we were seeing the early weight loss, the size of the weight loss, and that was super exciting time for the company.

And then I worked in health economics and market access. I was the first person to be, to be sent into a rotation like that. So both had R and D and commercial experience.

And what Novo saw in me at that time was that maybe I could help them align the two functions, get better along, build bridges and build a good relationship between them. Because what sometimes is a difficulty for commercial functions is to get the endpoints that they would like to have in the protocols across.

And why is that important? Because if we don't measure during clinical trials certain things, it might be difficult then to communicate about them and then to sell the drugs.

So we build kind of the analysis in our protocols for submitting it to health authorities. But then we also need to be able to commercialize these drugs. And that second part, it is difficult and it's not.

And that's difficult across the whole sector.

And I think what Novo showed me that I was not aware of at the time, it was very early in my career, was that I'm actually pretty decent at taking the complex stat stuff and translating it to another function and then taking some of the thinking that was also complex in health economics, et cetera, and then translating it back to the other team.

And that small rotation it, it basically has, I think it has set up my whole career being able to be that, be that bridge and the trusted partner to different funct. So I continued as a statistician for a few years more. I became a biostatistics lead.

So I was leading clinical submissions and that meant that I worked very cross functionally. So I got very deep understanding of what we are doing, especially in development.

And then I thought that is maybe a cherry on top of my biostat or my nerdy journey, which is not true because now I am all into AI. But at the time I thought I would like to work on more cross functional roles, bigger projects.

That is when I for the first time tried innovation in different form. Of course clinical trials are innovation, but this was. We were looking at a solution provided by a Boston startup.

They had a different way of dissolving particles.

And I was a global, global program manager trying to help a group of very senior specialists, SMEs from regulatory affairs, CMC, market access as well, figure out, okay, if we try to take this different way of dissolving particles apply to our pipeline, do all of the clinical Trials that are needed and all of the assessments in eight years, for example, if we go to market, what would be the benefit and how much are we going to earn? Is it an exercise that is worth doing? And I thought that was really fun. Both leading this cross functional group, helping them get to the same page.

And we had some pretty difficult both analysis, but also messages to cater to our senior management and then also figuring out this very long term plan and vision.

And then I thought it was also fascinating working with a startup that was so brilliant at what they were doing and so deeply specialized, but also not necessarily knowing their customers so well, not understanding the pharma world yet very well.

And I think that is present for a number of startups that when they're starting out, they have this really clever idea, a very clever product, but they're still learning about their customers. So I thought that was so much fun and I wanted more of that.

I wanted more innovation and more of this kind of cross functional project management work. So I joined Clinical Trial Innovation. This is where we were building for Leo Pharma.

So similar to Novo Nordisk, another 100-year-old pharma company, Denmark. Somehow we have these.

build an Innovation Strategy: 2023

I was trying it out privately, but we were just kind of hearing about ChatGPT 3.5 at the time existing and I was headhunted by, by an IT consultancy where I was supposed to have an innovation, maybe AI oriented role.

It was really early days at that time of, of of ChatGPT Like I said, but the consultancy was very busy and instead of getting that role, they have put me on a IT implementation of VIVA Systems with no onboarding. My first day was flying to a very senior steering committee meeting them at the kickoff and they were expecting a project plan I think the next day.

And I was just like what?

And at that time I was maybe not a power user of how we understand them now, but I was already using ChatGPT and kind of having an awareness of maybe this is what can save me in this situation.

And I started using IT for everything from sparring roles and responsibilities and figuring out AI architecture and also, you know, understanding risks, IT validation.

So upskilling super fast into my new role and I really felt like I had a superpower suddenly because it was so fast that people were a little bit shocked, like, how are you managing all of this?

t was spring, early spring of: 2023

And I thought that the consultancy was a little bit, or maybe it was not the place where I saw myself long term. I went to a dinner with some of my colleagues in pharma here and I said, I want more AI.

I was helping this consultancy try to figure out where AI can be applied in R and D.

And I just saw, okay, with all of my experience from these cross functional roles that I used to have working both with, with R and D and commercial, I can see a lot of ways how we can utilize it. Both kind of at your fingertips, but also deeper, bigger optimization projects.

And I went to this dinner and said this that I think I would be searching for a new role. I'm really fascinated by this. Like I need a role where I can lead this. And then one person in the dinner was like, don't apply anywhere.

I know just the person that you need to speak with. And yeah, after many, many interviews, I'm now a director of AI and digital R and D strategic initiatives.

And that just means that I'm a project manager and I support other project managers, whether they are in my team or across the organization, in leading big AI projects. These are projects that are, for example, drafting clinical documents for submission purposes.

So this is building products or acquiring products and building a four strategic roadmap for that.

And somewhere along the line of when I was in my role, I was asked by my svp, so the senior vice president for the whole portfolio and project management, could you do maybe an inspirational session for us about AI? Because we are still. The adoption is very early.

And that's where I think my idea of my company was starting to be born because it went so well and it was, I thought that we are speaking so much about the big projects, maybe I just tell people how they can get their own superpowers.

And it worked so well that then I was asked, could you maybe lead a task force, the first task force in the company of how we can upskill employees to kind of having superpowers.

And then once I started posting about that, people from outside of my current company, so outside of the corporation that I was working in, started reaching out. Could you do the same for us? Can you come and train our team? And that's how I think everything started.

So I had a company before I joined the company that I'm working in right now. But it really took shape last spring with that first inspirational keynote and then just an avalanche of things later. Wow.

Joanna Shilton: 00:11:36

I love that because you start to say that because you've, you know, being in mathematics and it was quite nerdy. But I guess that's the kind of, that's where it comes from. That's the passion like, because AI is mass, it's predicting.

And I don't know, that's just so interesting that you. That you're using it to do that, to help people that maybe they hadn't thought about that before.

And I love that you say you started using Chat GPT because you went from being a regular user to a power user. It is like having a superpower because otherwise how do you sometimes turn things around so quickly?

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:12:09

Yeah. And I think you sometimes need to be pushed into a place where you actually need help.

So I think becoming a power user or a super user, it is, it is a number of pillars for most corporations. I think that they have seen, okay, now we have deployed a number of licenses and we had like a first early adoption wave.

And especially I work within life science, so I support pharma companies and biotech companies primarily consultancies within life science as well. But then they have deployed the licenses they have. So they have seen the first wave of adopters and then kind of it flattens out.

It's not like they're seeing a lot more people join the curve where they expect it. Like if we, I think the tech functions when we, you know, give this awesome opportunity to people, they will just jump on it.

But what I think people don't realize is we are so busy in our roles, not everybody will have time to experiment. I think some of them will be worried, is it. Is it allowed? I hear.

So I gather a lot of data and do a lot of surveys where I try to check what are the worries and what are the barriers. And this is where people are worried about regulations. What data can they put in? How will their boss view it? Is it cheating?

So there's a lot of emotions that are going on into this, into becoming, I think, a power user and allowing for some people to allow themselves to actually utilize it. And I think sometimes it is that you need to be a situation like I was in where you are just pressed to the Wall and otherwise it will not work.

But have. I think you need to have an early ide. I jump to technologies pretty fast, so I have like an early adopter qualities.

But I think if you are not naturally drawn to these, you will need some support, like targeted external training, like your management supporting utilization of AI and getting an inspiration to. Why is it worth spending time on actually getting these new skills?

Joanna Shilton: 00:14:09

Yeah, because it is, it's. And is that what you do at Efficiency Tactics? Because you're. That's the Danish life science sector. So how do you.

Do you educate the leaders or is it the stuff. Well, I suppose you have to start with the leader and say that it isn't cheating, you know, it isn't. Yeah, you need to learn how to use it.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:14:28

So I told you that part of the start of Efficiency Tactics, that was some, some of people, some of my old colleagues and people that knew me from the industry that reached out for these sessions.

But the idea, I think it was growing a little bit earlier when I was, you know, most of my friends that we started in the industry with are now director, senior director, vp. So they are now expected to have a vision for their function. Many of them, they are very busy.

And then I was going to, you know, have a coffee with them. And while we were speaking, they were like, you know, the moment that kind of AI became the AI at your fingertips became so present. Right.

Because AI has been around for a number of decades. But, you know, when ChatGPT really launched and we started talking about it, I was so incredibly busy.

And now I noticed that AI is being discussed in every other meeting. And I'm just feeling a little bit uncomfortable because I did not have time to kind of jump on this train.

And this is where I thought maybe this is where I can make the first difference, is to help them and understand where's the world going. Why are we now seeing this? So what is AI about? Why are we seeing this?

This growth, this crazy growth of all different AI tools right now, this utilization as well, that is so, so spread. So why is this happening now? And what does the future hold?

And how can they support them, their employees, but also themselves in what's happening now? And that's. And for that, I made a free course that I have on my LinkedIn for all the leaders to try out.

And this course is just six weeks of short emails that they get on their mailbox where they can understand all of this. Why is it worth training them and their employees and themselves.

And then when I work with organizations we start with the leadership layer and helping them figure out okay, where is it that we are.

How to support their employees, how to create the messaging that is going to accommodate they use and make their employees feel comfortable with this transformation. What will happen to their jobs. That is a pretty common fear. Will I be replaced? No, you will not. This is how we expect you to work with AI.

So it's an augmentation. How to explain that process? So basically building the AI literacy from the leadership layer and then also into the employee layer.

Joanna Shilton: 00:16:59

I love that that's so important.

And do you see any difference between like sort of take up between male or female leaders or is everyone kind of as excited about it or maybe there isn't a difference?

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:17:12

I don't think that I can see a difference between male and female leaders. I have not done a survey around it. I just thought that you know, we have a gender pickup. It is common knowledge. Right.

And it will take 150, I think or maybe more years to actually close that. And I truly believe that moments of change like we are experiencing right now and there can also be moments of opportunity.

So I think that getting more women into AI and as you know AI from all the AI workforce only about 20% are women. It is a workforce that has very good salaries right now. Right. Because everybody wants these specialists. So getting more women into AI should.

So this is how I'm imagining, you know, the gender pickup, getting more women into a. Then who, who's going to get picked as leaders?

Probably it will be those who also have a vision about AI and can lead their employees and their organizations into this new reality that we're in. Can I support some of the, some of the leaders in feeling more comfortable? And I'm not exclusive, it's not like.

But I just thought maybe I can also support more women in feeling comfortable with this, with this transformation and with this change and kind of having. Giving them a good ground to stand on when they're building division for their organizations.

So I just imagined like can I just add some steps to make the time that it will. That is necessary to close it shorter.

Joanna Shilton: 00:18:42

Yeah, I had a, I know we spoke briefly before and there's a stat somewhere that only 2% of startup funding in the Nordics goes to women and, but, and the majority of investors are men and that kind of as you say that just, we just accept that that's the gender pay gap but and sort of trying to change it. Do you think there are barriers that sort of stop women from getting funding or That I don't know is AI.

How can it help women do you think to kind of get more into AI or other challenges?

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:19:11

And I didn't really tell you yet today about my startup journey. So I think that an investing journey, I started investing about two years ago.

I have been thinking about it for many years and I wasn't really sure where to start.

And there's this, this Scandinavian company called Female Invest and they thought that they also want to help close the, the gender pay gap and they thought that they can perhaps do it by helping more women invest. And I took their courses, I thought that they were fantastic. And so I got into investing that way.

And then the women that started it, they are a startup themselves. So they were communicating about this, what you just said, the of all founding in the Nordics going to female started or female led startups.

And immediately when I saw this statistic I thought oh my God, this is outrageous. But then the data oriented side of me, so the statistician was like okay, calm down, let's take a look at kind of what does the data say?

So maybe there are not that many. Just like being the devil's advocate, maybe there aren't that many female startups, I don't know.

So then I checked, okay, obviously there is a, there, there is far more than 2%. Okay then what else does the statistic tell us? Women are better prepared where, when they are pitching.

So okay, this is, this is, this is already kind of a check then startups that are led by women, they are the, the return on investment for every dollar is twice higher than the startups that are led by men. So there's a good reason to invest into these, right? So if you're going to get twice higher roi. So, so why is that happening?

And then I thought okay, how can I also support that?

So I called the nearest incubator that I could find and I said I, if you have an issue where you maybe are lacking representation of women in your, in your, in your group of mentors, I would love to sign up. I have all of this experience that is super cross functional and both tech and, and pharma and leadership experience.

So is that useful to you and can I support you with that? And they were like oh please join us. This is amazing.

We definitely need more representation of women because it was a very, it's a tech and life science oriented incubator. So they also have for example fintech startups and these startups, they need to spar with people who might be potential users.

So they need to get an understanding and they also of those who might use their products. But also I think we all bring different experiences to the table. Right.

So getting a broader experience from mentors that is let's say wide, a wide range of experience, it is very supportive to them. I have in my life reported to full male steering committee. So it was me and just men in these groups.

So I think that I have become pretty good at communicating in a way that gets across and gets understood.

I think for these startups I sometimes noticed that and that's not all of them but, but some, I think that there would be somebody, some one of the mentors for example, sharing their, their insights. With this startup that I was mentoring.

It was, it was only female founders and they would listen because they were, they were just, they were super clever, they were ambitious and they were just all the good things. But then at the same time they were very respectful which is not a bad trade in theory.

But then this, you know, this, this mentor, they would just share and share and share and they wouldn't interrupt him.

And I remember reading this, this data that one of the investors said, I expect the founders to interrupt me and I expect them to disagree with me because this is how I'm used to interacting with people. So I think what, what this startup needed to grow into was it's okay to say like hey, we have already done all of this analysis.

I love it that you're bringing it up. It's such an important point. But we're already past that hope. Let's focus on X ray Z.

So also maybe taking charge and taking leadership in the conversation and steering it to where they needed it to be. Because I think some of the investors, they might see in how you are leading the conversation, how you're behaving here.

This is also how you will lead your company.

Yeah, so we have, we have, I have worked with startups on kind of getting better at this dynamic that might be expected since many of the panels that are assigning founding are still very male led or have maybe are not fully diverse yet. So this has been something of an interest of mine. And then you asked about AI.

I think that investing into AI, investing into AI startups, it also creates a lot of opportunities. But I think there are opportunities all across. Right.

One is getting more women into AI roles, helping or having more women with AI vision for their organizations. Considering who is it that you are hiring for different projects and what skill sets is it that you need?

Because I think that those who are great at Training others in AI and those that are great at leading AI projects are also those that, that have a lot of EQ and that they can understand the other side very well and they can build these bridges. And these are not necessarily deep tech abilities.

I think that these are abilities where we can very easily have a diverse group of people that are leading this type of initiatives.

Joanna Shilton: 00:25:25

Definitely you need skills from both sides. As you say, equality and diversity kind of only adds to the return on any investment.

And I think it's sort of maybe historically, yeah, you might see something as a male role or a female role and it's not, it's those soft skills, it's how, how can you do it and not being scared, it's having those opportunities, isn't it as well? Because I think you mentioned before about trying to get women into AI and it's sometimes it's about the job description.

If you're kind of not aware, you know, you might just say, oh, AI is going to be really nerdy or it's going to be really difficult. I need to be techie, I need to understand, you know, how does it work. And you don't, do you? It's kind of, that's all happening in the background.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:26:07

And yeah, I think you are really right. And we have spoken on our pre interview, right.

About how I was hiring people into my department first I was hiring an associate director to my R and D strategic initiatives department.

And I noticed that with the job description that we have posted I did not get as diverse group of candidates as I could have hoped for, at least in terms of gender. So I thought that maybe I didn't know, but maybe there is something about how it was written.

It was kind of technology oriented and maybe it made it seem like you need to have a lot of technology experience, which I don't think that necessarily for the type of work that we're doing you need that. I think of course you need a level of understanding and excitement, but you really need to be the most accurate.

And we are building a bridge between, in my current role, between our data science and IT organization and data science and IT and the business functions. So we are kind of the trusted partner in that and we are helping them get on the same page and make sure that everybody is understood in that group.

So here I think it's even more important that you can just truly listen to your stakeholders. Stakeholders notice where, when are they speaking the same language and where is it that they are missing each other?

And that is, I don't think that this quality, which I think is the most important one, it requires a lot of tech.

So I thought, can I maybe when I'm hiring the next person to my department, try to make some tweaks to the job description and see if I can get arrive at a more diverse group of candidates? And it worked. And I got so many, so many amazing.

I got amazing candidates in the first round, but I also got many more women to apply for the second, for the second round. And it was an intern position that I was hiring for and it was an intern with business background that joined us last summer.

And she was so clever and she was a force of nature and she was also so nice and great at this, at this bridge building. She was not super deeply tech specialized, but she had an interest in AI. She was using ChatGPT to be her sparring partner.

So she upskilled very fast to everything that she needed to know. And it's not just the business folks that really loved working with her.

It was also our AI and data science that were like, oh my God, this person is amazing. So it was really an exercise that was worth trying out. The outcome was much better than I could have ever predicted.

Joanna Shilton: 00:28:59

So what's the secret to using ChatGPT, to things like that? Is it all in the prompts? Is it the more you use it, do you refine it?

Do you go back to ChatGPT and say no, can you make it more like this or more like that? Or are you relying on it, having the data there to be able to.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:29:15

I love that you're asking this. This is one of my favorite things about ChatGPT when I'm training people. I don't know if I told you actually.

So I have, I just finished the first course that will be available on my website, maybe this or next week. That is a course for project managers and it teaches how can you utilize AI, but the AI at your fingertips.

So not some kind of AI software, but whether it's Claude or ChatGPT or whatever it is that you're doing, how can you utilize it in your work? And it starts with the way of thinking and also applying it from kind of of AI from different angles.

So I think most people, they start out with, can you draft this for me? And then some. Then a big group, this is where we lose a lot of potential future power users or super users.

They get some kind of a high level smoke, what they call it, right? Like high level results. And they're like, oh, this is not really useful to me. How I use AI is that I use it from all kinds of different angles.

So of course I use it for drafting, but I also use it as a sparring partner, which I think this is, this is where one of the bigger benefits are. So I ask, okay, can you be an experienced lawyer that has my best interest at heart. I did this a few years, a few days ago.

That has my best interest at heart. This is what I am going to send to someone. Can you identify my vulnerabilities and tell me how can I improve that?

And why do you think that these are vulnerabilities within what I'm sending? So not only did I assign it a role that is very specific, I explained it also how should it behave towards me.

So I'm like, like you are a super experienced lawyer and I'm your best friend. So this is what you would truly advise me as the best advisor there could be from that side.

And then you identify the vulnerabilities, the ways of how to fix them. But I can also learn from you for the future why these are vulnerabilities.

And when I ask the AI about kind of the way of how it thinks, I can also better judge should I really implement this? Or maybe this is where I, maybe this is where I disagree with my this time best friend lawyer and I decide to omit that advice.

So I think that this is one of the bigger opportunities that people are missing until they become a power user or a super user within AI having sparring partners with all kinds of different backgrounds.

Joanna Shilton: 00:31:50

Yeah, that's really helpful to me as well because you know, I do use it, I use it in my day to day work. And you're right, it's asking and knowing how to do those prompts.

So those courses that you've got, I think, and the fact that they're accessible and they're, you know, they're there, I think that's the kind of thing that is going to hopefully get women more actively involved in using AI.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:32:15

Yeah.

And I think the part that I was trying to, to make visible, I think Both in my LinkedIn and also in my website is that this is not another tech, very also techie language speaking course.

Because I think there's a lot of great specialists out there and there's also a lot of enthusiasts right now, both on LinkedIn and in the field training people. I hear this from many companies that are biotech and life science companies here.

Oh, we had this person that came in and then they were so excited about all of the technologies they just laid out the landscape and they were just speaking a lot of, you know, techie, techywords. But we still don't know how to utilize it in our roles.

And this is where I think there is so much space on the market right now to inspire people to use it in a targeted way, in what they are doing, in a language that they can understand and maybe also in a way that appeals to them. And I think this is what I hope to also provide through my courses and through the free course that I mentioned that I have on my LinkedIn.

It's not purple green data flying from the air, a lot of techy words, but actually it is catered in a way that people who are not AI specialists or deeply excited about tech will also understand very easily.

Joanna Shilton: 00:33:50

Yeah, I love it. I'm going to put links to all of that in the, in the show notes there. And I just think this is the time to get involved.

And like we mentioned that the Nordics and there was a stat recently about AI could grow the UK economy by 400 billion, I mean 400 billion pounds. So we need, we need everybody we know women need to be actively involved in this growth.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:34:13

Yeah. And you know, this number, it comes from the AI Opportunities act, the UK AI Opportunities act.

And I think the total growth, it will even be much bigger. This number I think is really fascinating because this is innovation and personal productivity in a workplace.

So this is not necessarily, you know, implementing all kinds of bigger products in what you're doing.

This is when we're speaking personal productivity, I imagine a big chunk of this number actually being for people to be able to utilize the AI at their fingertips. So the large language models like ChatGPT, whether it's llama or Claude or whatever it is that one is using, but efficiently within their roles.

What we are considering power users right now are people who can save between one half to five hours a week. And this is the average coders are saving way more on average, but this is the average power user.

And I think for any, for any leader, for any person to imagine, what if I'm saving one half, what if I'm saving five hours a week, 40 hours a month, times every employee in my team, it becomes insane because then you're starting to think, what is the quality that will be added, what is the work life balance that will be added?

There's a reason why we're seeing not just like the quality and time savings scores, but we're seeing a lot of work happiness scores being improved within the super user groups because they have More time for personal development. If they need to, they can maybe finish work a little bit earlier.

They can ask for additional tasks that are more kind of in their career, in their career progression path that they have planned for themselves.

So there, I think for super users we're seeing that 92% of or above 90% of super users, they're saying that they feel more happy at work, that they have time to focus on their most important tasks more than they ever did before. So these are all scores above 90% of super users say that, that they have gained more work life balance.

So there are a lot of good reasons to train organizations in that. And then the number, the 400 billion over five years. 400 billion pounds over five years. It really puts it into perspective.

Or is it worth investing into this transformation or not?

Joanna Shilton: 00:36:47

Yeah, I think it is. And I love that you mentioned investing because that's something as well that I, you know, I've not even thought about doing for.

So I'm definitely going to look into investments and that kind of thing, I think.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:37:02

Yeah, I think this is an awesome space with so many opportunities right now and of course it carries risks, but I think this is where you can judge a lot, where you feel comfortable and not and educate yourself on the risks but also on the opportunities. And it's worth kind of keeping that in mind.

Joanna Shilton: 00:37:21

Marcelina, it's been amazing to speak to you. Give me lots of things to think about and lots of things I'm going to be trying on ChatGPT later in the way I interact with it. So thank you.

I mean for anyone that's that's curious about that and sort of doesn't know where to start. How can people find you? Is LinkedIn the best place?

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:37:40

Yes, I think you can, you can find me on LinkedIn, you can find my free 6 weeks course tagged at the top of my LinkedIn and I think, you know, so if you're thinking about starting with AI and you have never used it before and you have never tried it before, go to OpenAI.com, get ChatGPT free for free.

You have the 3.5 version that's free and just say, hey, this is my role, this is what I'm working with, this is my title and this is my high level tasks.

Provide me with a list of bullet points of how you understand my tasks and how you think that I can use ChatGPT in my work and a list of concise prompts that I can use for each of these tasks and then just take a look and then you will get some good results and some pretty results. And the most important thing is that you don't give up there.

When you get the results that you're not interested in, you continue the conversation and just say, like, I don't like this. This is fluffy. This is not what I'm interested in. How do we make it more specific? And it will guide you as well to get to these good results.

So getting in this conversation, just try it out. You cannot, you can really break it. It's very diff. I think it would be very difficult to break it. So. So just go and try it out.

There's no danger in it.

Joanna Shilton: 00:38:55

I love that. That's the best advice. So thank you. Yeah. Marcelina Dutkovic, thank you for coming on Women with AI.

Marcelina Dutkiewicz: 00:39:02

Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure speaking with you.